Locked Down

Willum

Active Member
Hi
Glad all sorted in the end!!!! Now you have to do like the rest of us oldies!
Without realising what was going to happen,. We drove our motorhome back to UK to sell------ it sold very quick and we immediately booked a flight back to Portugal, then all hell let lose with flights etc!!!!!!
We are now self isolating on our off grid plot in central portugal-----we will have to go out for supplies occasionally--- and keep our internet topped up!!!! But rules about ANY travel are very strict!!!
We were humming and harring about taking out Portuguese residence, looks like it turned out to be a good move!!!!-----
- up to now---- very few cases in central Portugal, hope it stays that way!!!!! Plenty to do on our land and we are well away from anyone else----- except when getting supplies!!!!!!!!
I think your campsite guy is being VERY optimistic!!!!!!! We are preparing for the long haul!!!!!!
I think you're probably in quite a good place. I hope you can continue to maintain your isolation. Do you have a finca, or similar on the plot?
Sounds as if Portugal has got as tight as Spain - and all the better for it. They are still havering about restrictions on construction workers here. To my mind, if you are moving around and mixing with other people, you are potentially spreading it. Shouldn't be happening! At least they have just announced a 6 month moratorium on the MOT.
I spent a long time in the armed forces, most during the Cold War. We exercised Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Warfare operations in earnest. The way this is spreading and it's potential lethality, it's as deadly as a lot of the biological weapons.
The routines we went through to decontaminate ourselves, our clothing AND THE EQUIPMENT show me that very, very few are taking this anywhere near seriously enough.
We have (polite) notices on the doors and it still doesn't click with some. The Royal Mail is still hand delivering junk mail!.
Will
 
Matters have more or less been taken out of our hands. More restrictions are being applied, the campsite is issuing indemnity waivers (sign it, or leave tomorrow) and has effectively washed its hands of any and all responsibility - probably being leaned on by their insurers, or lawyers. We can stay but - if we do, we are fully responsible for any and all expenses incurred if we get ill, medical included. I suspect it's a hand-washing exercise, so there's no comeback on them. I also suspect a bit of local government leaning so the tourists/winter travellers all get out and take a bit of pressure off their medical services. Our original feeling of safety has evaporated pretty quickly. All but one Brit, two locals, a guy from Luxembourg and an elderly Swedish bungalow dwelling couple will be gone by Tuesday - and some of those may well change their minds when they see the latest daily edict.
Pat's lung problem says we can't take the risk of being cut loose by the local medical services. She only normally needs an inhaler but this thing is such an unknown quantity that with the apparent vulnerability of older people with breathing impairment, we aren't risking it. We've decided on storing the camper where we are now and flying out Saturday late morning. Don't like the idea because I've absolutely NO idea when we'll be allowed/find it safe to came back and I can't help but feel sure that DVLA/Insurers/whatever will be bound to make a meal of it. MOT's due end of May, Insurance November.
Either way, I'll just have to find a way round it.
Roll on the Corona Virus immunisation jab:sweating:
Wish me luck.
Will
Jings, I feel for you guys. I, and my whippet, Zippee, have been very lucky enough to find someone, kind and generous enough, to allow us to park on their driveway to ride out this awful time. I really hope you guys arrive at a happy conclusion to all of this.
Good Luck
John and Zippee
 

Willum

Active Member
Two bits of good news:
First, you probably know there's a moratorium on the MOT - which might just see us clear as ours is due the end of May.
Next, our insurers have given us another 90 days European cover, starting from when the current one expires in late April. I had to get the agent (BG) to prod them (LV) a little to make it consecutive, rather than start from the day I told them about the problem. That would have only given us a 60 day extension. They still managed to relieve me of £80+ for the pleasure, though.
I have to say BG were very good and helpful. The young lady was working from home, on the ball and BG took no fee for their efforts. Thank you BG. Most impressed.
One other corporate act worthy of note:
When we faced being locked down in Spain for an indefinite period, I asked giffgaff if they were prepared to extend our 60 days roam-like-at-home allowance in view of us being 'locked down'. I got a very human response and quick, too. They said yes, they would and if I wanted more, they would organise sending out a new SIM to anyone who could use it briefly in the UK, then send it to me in Spain, so we could have yet another 60 days. Sometimes a crisis brings out the best in people and it was a great comfort to know we would have been able to talk to family and friends at 'home' without a worry.
Spain is using drones to enforce their lock down - but the death toll is hellish, approaching Italy's
Will
 

Willum

Active Member
Jings, I feel for you guys. I, and my whippet, Zippee, have been very lucky enough to find someone, kind and generous enough, to allow us to park on their driveway to ride out this awful time. I really hope you guys arrive at a happy conclusion to all of this.
Good Luck
John and Zippee
Ta, John (and Zippee) Glad you're in a safe place. I think there's actually an awful lot of kindly people out there - and it's heart warming when you see it.
Will
 

sundowners

Well-Known Member
Staying put is a difficult decision to make!!----- first thing is we have no idea how long this will go on???!!
Another thing is insurances for you and your van----could prove very tricky if yours hadn't been extended!!
But to be honest I think the contamination risk in UK and the trip back are pretty high---- I think better stay put if you can do it in isolation as much as possible------- nice to have some hand gel, but we are using home distilled alcohol (aquadent here in Portugal!!). Couldn't find any gel in a quick trip to shops!!
 

Willum

Active Member
Staying put is a difficult decision to make!!----- first thing is we have no idea how long this will go on???!!
Another thing is insurances for you and your van----could prove very tricky if yours hadn't been extended!!
But to be honest I think the contamination risk in UK and the trip back are pretty high---- I think better stay put if you can do it in isolation as much as possible------- nice to have some hand gel, but we are using home distilled alcohol (aquadent here in Portugal!!). Couldn't find any gel in a quick trip to shops!!
Don't quote me on this, a bit of research will prove me right, or wrong, but:
I think alcohol (hand gel effective ingredient) is only really effective if over 60% proof - not sure about aquadent, but the little bottles of alcohol I remember seeing in all the Portuguese shops and supermarkets is about 98% from memory........ if there's any left on the shelves....................
The problem with high proof alcohol is it tends to cause cracking of the skin from local dehydration - giving the virus a route in.
The recommendations I've seen are for careful and vigorous hand washing with soap for at least 20 seconds, every time you touch anything that could potentially be contaminated (touched/coughed/sneezed on) by someone else outside your isolated group?) It was suggested you sang the 'Happy Birthday' song to yourself fully and twice through, as an aid to timing. I see there's also something starting to come out about using a 'mild' solution of good old bleach to sterilise surfaces. Trouble is , there's no specific indication of what they consider 'mild' to be.
Apologies if that was teaching Granny to suck eggs.
I'd be interested to hear what the Portuguese in general are making of it. Stay safe and all the best.
Will
 

sundowners

Well-Known Member
Hi from my information, you are correct about the alcohol content-- I figure it's better than nothing!! have added a little skin moisturizer to try to protect the skin, but only a little as it dilutes the alcohol content!!! It stings small cuts so must still have a lot of alcohol in it!!!
I still prefer to drink it -- neat!!
The Portuguese in general are taking it all very seriously as far as we can see, but although extremely quiet people are trying to continue life as isolated as possible----- the couple that work the land next to us come to work their land most days, if they don't they will have no crop to feed their animals or themselves!! but we keep our distance!!! The local shepherd lady still walks her sheep the other side to feed on rapidly growing grass all around----- the still give us any spare veg etc and I helped her with a small problem with sheep yesterday---- so life is continuing but in a very strange way!!!
Stay safe everyone!!!!
 

Dunroamin

Well-Known Member
Hi from my information, you are correct about the alcohol content-- I figure it's better than nothing!! have added a little skin moisturizer to try to protect the skin, but only a little as it dilutes the alcohol content!!! It stings small cuts so must still have a lot of alcohol in it!!!
I still prefer to drink it -- neat!!
The Portuguese in general are taking it all very seriously as far as we can see, but although extremely quiet people are trying to continue life as isolated as possible----- the couple that work the land next to us come to work their land most days, if they don't they will have no crop to feed their animals or themselves!! but we keep our distance!!! The local shepherd lady still walks her sheep the other side to feed on rapidly growing grass all around----- the still give us any spare veg etc and I helped her with a small problem with sheep yesterday---- so life is continuing but in a very strange way!!!
Stay safe everyone!!!!
 

Dunroamin

Well-Known Member
We are sitting pretty on a 7 kilometer long beach in Greece. Two ghettos of Germans and 10 of us wide apart.Lidl 15ks and plenty of fresh water on tap
The Greeks have long since shut down all but petrol stations,chemists and grocery shops.You have to download a form to fill in if you move and fill it in with your reason,date and time plus address.We only have to go shopping every 2 weeks once with mobike and next with truck.Couldn't be a nicer place to be locked down.
 

Willum

Active Member
Hi
Glad all sorted in the end!!!! Now you have to do like the rest of us oldies!
Without realising what was going to happen,. We drove our motorhome back to UK to sell------ it sold very quick and we immediately booked a flight back to Portugal, then all hell let lose with flights etc!!!!!!
We are now self isolating on our off grid plot in central portugal-----we will have to go out for supplies occasionally--- and keep our internet topped up!!!! But rules about ANY travel are very strict!!!
We were humming and harring about taking out Portuguese residence, looks like it turned out to be a good move!!!!-----
- up to now---- very few cases in central Portugal, hope it stays that way!!!!! Plenty to do on our land and we are well away from anyone else----- except when getting supplies!!!!!!!!
I think your campsite guy is being VERY optimistic!!!!!!! We are preparing for the long haul!!!!!!
How are you doing out there in the wilds of Portugal?
On the bright side at our end, our restoration project now has a functioning - but not finished - main bathroom loo, wash basin and bath.
Getting this far with it wasn't achieved with quite the source of motivation I'd expected............ Strange times.
Will
 

Willum

Active Member
We are sitting pretty on a 7 kilometer long beach in Greece. Two ghettos of Germans and 10 of us wide apart.Lidl 15ks and plenty of fresh water on tap
The Greeks have long since shut down all but petrol stations,chemists and grocery shops.You have to download a form to fill in if you move and fill it in with your reason,date and time plus address.We only have to go shopping every 2 weeks once with mobike and next with truck.Couldn't be a nicer place to be locked down.
Are you still managing to keep it sane on the Greek beach? Not been 'Moved Along'?
Will
 

Dunroamin

Well-Known Member
Are you still managing to keep it sane on the Greek beach? Not been 'Moved Along'?
Will
The police were round today telling us to move on then it got sorted we can all stay.Together about 30 vans.The French and German gov organized a charter ferry from Grimaldi. And permission to land in Italy and convoy to France.Packed full and very expensive.A lot staying tho safer here.
 

BigMomma

Well-Known Member
The positive side of this Virus :rolleyes: Already nature and wildlife is beginning to recover and bloom once again, the air is already much cleaner and less polluted, imagine how good this virus is for the environment already and what it could be like in just another 6 months of lockdown:thumb: The virus is 'culling' the planets over population including the weak and vulnerable, a sort of 'survival of the fittest' scenario, is that not a good thing ? Of course from a human perspective it is a tragedy and even devastating, but if the Politicians around the Globe are not capable of working together to save our planet then perhaps nature has to interject ? What do other's think ?
 

vwalan

Well-Known Member
politicians change but the systems dont really change.
take the whole of authority the very top might change but all the rest just carry on as before.
doesnt matter if its armed forces, police ,education ,nhs , councils etc it just goes on
they dont sack all the staff and get new.
as to nature well it just changes as things change . its normal for some things to disappear and new things arrive.
be far better to change or do away with things like wind power, it stop pollination and steals the power of winds allowing other winds to bring in hot or cold winds etc . spain noticed the pollination problem years ago. mind didnt really do anything about it.
even all the solar fields are using land that could in many places be used for other sources .
certainly uk hasnt had good gov for years possibly never.
the management are hopeless and workers are very often scivers .
some try hard ,other try not to be good at what ever they do.
but never mind the rain as stopped and hopefully the sun will shine . best go for a ride out.
be ashame to waste the day staying in.
 

Willum

Active Member
The positive side of this Virus :rolleyes: Already nature and wildlife is beginning to recover and bloom once again, the air is already much cleaner and less polluted, imagine how good this virus is for the environment already and what it could be like in just another 6 months of lockdown:thumb: The virus is 'culling' the planets over population including the weak and vulnerable, a sort of 'survival of the fittest' scenario, is that not a good thing ? Of course from a human perspective it is a tragedy and even devastating, but if the Politicians around the Globe are not capable of working together to save our planet then perhaps nature has to interject ? What do other's think ?
A bit on the brutal side, BigMomma but you seem to be spot on. Age itself wrecks your immune system but medical science has developed an amazing array of interventions to keep us going way beyond the design limits. The vast majority of the deaths appear to be amongst the elderly (self included - and a lot of others on here, methinks) and those with otherwise damaged organs and immune systems.
I think good old Mother Nature will simply wipe out the human race when she gets fed up with our antics anyway. Any life form that cannot adapt to changing environments has always suffered that fate and the Covid-19 virus has changed our environment. Doubtless there are other life forms that will suffer from its effects as well and I'm not sure what it does to other primates but so far it appears that Homo Sapiens is the worst affected.
The more complex the life form, the more easily damaged it is.
Darwinian theory proved right again - unless you're a Creationist denier, of course.
Will
ps hope (but not holding my breath) that it's not another 6 months. I want to get my 'kin motorhome back...............
 

chrisjones18

Well-Known Member
An estimated 32 million people have died from HIV since the disease was first recognized in the early 1980s, so this virus has a long way to go yet.
Then an Ebola outbreak in 1998 killed 80% of the people it affected in the Congo.
Smallpox killed 300 million worldwide .
Spanish flu killed an estimated 50 million around 100 years ago.
Dengue fever has been around since around 1950 and the plain old flu kills loads every year,
All originally passed from animals unless I'm wrong.
 

BigMomma

Well-Known Member
An estimated 32 million people have died from HIV since the disease was first recognized in the early 1980s, so this virus has a long way to go yet.
Then an Ebola outbreak in 1998 killed 80% of the people it affected in the Congo.
Smallpox killed 300 million worldwide .
Spanish flu killed an estimated 50 million around 100 years ago.
Dengue fever has been around since around 1950 and the plain old flu kills loads every year,
All originally passed from animals unless I'm wrong.
Your last line is absolutely correct :thumb: But ask yourself why, or how it jumps from animal to human ? Look at intensive animal farming and when we, humans, started to change our farming methods, then look at the number of viruses that there have been since then:rolleyes: Why are diseases become immune to our anti-biotics ? Could it be that farmers have been feeding them in great quantities to animals ? Looking at how viruses mutate between animal species is interesting, worth taking a look at the Influenza virus that killed millions back in 1918 then see how that transfers and mutates in different animal species and how it gets into the food chain:eek:
 

BigMomma

Well-Known Member
A bit on the brutal side, BigMomma but you seem to be spot on. Age itself wrecks your immune system but medical science has developed an amazing array of interventions to keep us going way beyond the design limits. The vast majority of the deaths appear to be amongst the elderly (self included - and a lot of others on here, methinks) and those with otherwise damaged organs and immune systems.
I think good old Mother Nature will simply wipe out the human race when she gets fed up with our antics anyway. Any life form that cannot adapt to changing environments has always suffered that fate and the Covid-19 virus has changed our environment. Doubtless there are other life forms that will suffer from its effects as well and I'm not sure what it does to other primates but so far it appears that Homo Sapiens is the worst affected.
The more complex the life form, the more easily damaged it is.
Darwinian theory proved right again - unless you're a Creationist denier, of course.
Will
ps hope (but not holding my breath) that it's not another 6 months. I want to get my 'kin motorhome back...............
It wasn't meant to be brutal, just a discussion ;) You are of course right about the largest death toll being amongst the more elderly age bracket and those that have underlying health issues. But this virus does kill others, younger members of the population too, not with underlying health issues either. These viruses do actually kill animals, but the domesticated livestock used in farming that die of such diseases are still processed and put into the human food chain but, until now, we were not as aware of that fact:lipssealed:
 

Willum

Active Member
It wasn't meant to be brutal, just a discussion ;) You are of course right about the largest death toll being amongst the more elderly age bracket and those that have underlying health issues. But this virus does kill others, younger members of the population too, not with underlying health issues either. These viruses do actually kill animals, but the domesticated livestock used in farming that die of such diseases are still processed and put into the human food chain but, until now, we were not as aware of that fact:lipssealed:
Apologies, it wasn't meant as a slight, more in reference to your accurate assessment of the 'brutal' truth of the matter.
Covid-19 isn't going to go away and I fear it will be more a case of when might I catch it as opposed to if I catch it. We can't continue to exist in a bubble of self protection, either. I honestly don't see much chance of a vaccine. The world has not managed one for the common cold since scientists began trying - probably in the region of 100 years, now? The WHO is also pouring cold water on the usefulness of any of the current batch of aintibody test developed to try and prove if you've had it/got some immunity to it. It might just turn out to be something we have to learn to live with as a constant threat - like Ebola........ but much worse in terms of how easily it's spread.
But cheer up, everyone. On the bright side: I've just seen a Linnet singing his little heart out - on the roof, of all places.
2609
They used to be a really common sight when I was a kid in this neck of the woods but just vanished when farming methods changed - and all the hedgerows disappeared.
That's the first I've seen in the 5 years since we moved back here.
Will
 

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