Warning about La Marina, near Guardamar del Segura, Spain

DonnaG

Well-Known Member
#1
Just thought I'd better pass on a warning. We've had an email from some full-timing friends of ours about a problem they've had wild camping at La Marina, about 8km north of Guardamar del Segura, on the Costa Blanca. They were parked up there a few weeks ago, and in the late evening there was a knock on the door... the Guardia. It resulted in their passports being checked, the MH reg plate photgraphed, and now apparently, a letter to their UK base, with a fine of €1200!!! This is not a scam. They were genuine Guardia. Our friends are not novice wilders either, they've been doing it for 6 years and had frequently stayed at La Marina in the past with no problems at all.

They tell us that having spoken to other wilders, it would seem that the Spanish police are now tightening up. Wild camping is of course, illegal in Spain, as I'm sure most of you know, but it would seem that in the past, a blind eye was turned if no harm was being done. Perhaps that is no longer the case, for reasons unknown to us. I feel it necessary to pass this information on to you, as I am aware that there are both experienced and novice MH'ers on this forum, and have also become aware that some who advocate various acts, such as wild camping or long term stays where they really shouldn't be, may not actually have done so recently themselves, but fail to make that clear. It's then very easy for a novice to assume that it is still safe.

I feel I have done my duty in passing on this information. As always, make your own mind up, you are all adults. I would like to prempt any comments about what a load of rubbish I am talking. Thanks all and happy camping :)
 

vwalan

Well-Known Member
#2
hi, try googling ,instruccion 08/v-74 de la direccion general de trafico relativa a las autocaravanas you cag get it translated to english . this explains about parking in spain . and not camping . it works . i have been arrested twice in spain for wild camping by the guardia . i wait till we get to the office then produced this letter and after having an apology got taken back to the truck . but you do have to park. now the same officers come in for coffee . think they are like mates now . but nothing outside .no steps touching the floor . you can open windows .but no awnings . and get ready to stand your ground and get arrested .something to tell the grand kids . afterall they arent going to shoot you and cause an international incident . best laugh at them when they pull their pistols , bang bang.
 

DonnaG

Well-Known Member
#3
Yes... the information you mention above has the tag 08 because it is 2008 information... perhaps the law has changed since then, or there may have been a tightening up, as I mentioned above. Do you have more recent information? Perhaps you have been there recently?
http://www.viajarenautocaravana.com/legislacion_detall.php?idg=19574

I don't think most people accept the possibility of being arrested as a bit of a laugh. Personally, I like to respect a country, and the people of that country, and it's laws...
 

BigMomma

Well-Known Member
#4
I know what you are saying Alan, it's called 'playing the game'. But, I think that a lot of people today do openly wild camp, when I say openly I mean in remote locations, supermarket car parks or similar, or on the beach etc. They do put out awnings, tables, chairs and BBQ outside their vans. I believe what Donna is saying is that whilst lots of people do it with no problems (or without getting caught), technically, it is illegal to Wildcamp in Spain. Different if you are just parking your van (or give the appearance of just parking your van ;)). Does this letter say anything about sleeping overnight in your van whilst parked up ? Also, in the past it would appear that wildcamping was readily accepted/tolerated so what has changed to make it now unacceptable/intolerable. Is it the huge amount of vans that are now on the road, Spanish Economy e.g. official Camper Stops or Sites losing money through increased wildcamping or is it that some have spoilt it for the rest by abusing the landscape, inappropriate emptying of 'Grey' or 'Black' waste, I don't know just wondering that's all :cautious:
 

vwalan

Well-Known Member
#5
all is explained there is nothing to stop you sleeping in the vehicle .article 2,3d explains this .
there are regulations about putting wedges under the wheels on slopes if you are over 3,500kg.
article 2b ,explains about not letting waste or rubbish be left about .also that nothing done inside or outside like stabilizers etc must hamper the movement of the vehicle . beds that drop down over the steering wheel could be against the rules for parking.
i,m lucky my steps dont touch the ground but if you have outside caravan steps expect a ticket.
no towels on posts etc . its just a game . but it works . but make a copy or two get it translated by google .believe me it works . it also explains on the back page why a frames can be legal using eu rules . 70/156/eec and 94/20/eec.
mind you have to look up the rules .
 

vwalan

Well-Known Member
#6
hi donna . i abide by the rules . this letter is from the director general pere navarro olivella was written jan 28 2008.
really campsites arent loosing moneythey wouldnt be getting it from wilders . the spanish guardia actually tell you to park in the towns by the hotels on the industial sites . they can then keep an eye on you and give some security for them and you. thy dont like you right on the beaches as there is a lay de la costas that probit parking for a fair distance from the tide line . but move into town its ok. goes against most ideas of wilding. i know it sounds daft but it works. i was arrested just after this letter was released i think some guardia didnt know about it. i work in conjunction with a spanish motohome club . several of us got arrested to make a point . there was also big convoys of m,homes from cadiz to la linea that year. someone has to stand ground . also been in moroccan clinks because of it . thats how i got a letter from the governor of tiznit giving me and friends to park anywhere in the tiznit province of maroc . you sometimes have to let them know they cant bully you. fortunately the king of maroc was on our side .
 

vwalan

Well-Known Member
#7
it still stands .its eu law we are using . its also valid here .and the uk may soon be brought to the eu courts . wheels are in motion.
i was last in spain in april of last year . some of my mates are in spain now using places to park. have been since november . moving through spain.
the question is were they parking or camping . i see camping going on try to explain the differance to people get told to f off . serves them right if they get a ticket.
just abide by the rules its easy .
some places we park in the guardia car park thats where they asked us to go years ago .still park there . others park in other places and get moved . think i have only used 2 campsites in spain in 30 yrs . one in moraira about 11 yrs ago and one in l hospitaletet de l`infant 3 yrs ago. possibly will never use another . i dont like campsites and very often not too keen on campsite users . cant be more honest.
i can say have been touring spain since a small child with my parents . a few years ago it got hard . after the spanish gov were took to the eu courts and this letter was issued parking is the way .
again its a game .if you dont like the rules best go to portugal on the algarve .lots do.
 

DonnaG

Well-Known Member
#8
All I'm doing on this thread is passing on information about something which has recently happened to friends of ours in one particular place. I am not here to argue the benefits or otherwise of wild camping, nor the ins and out of EU and Spanish law. If you are happy to take on the law and risk arrest to make a point, that is your business. Readers of this thread now have the information about an incident which happened, and also Alan's point of view. As I said earlier, make your own minds up, you are all adults :)
 

vwalan

Well-Known Member
#9
no body objects to anyone passing info. thats what its all about.i just thought the info i gave could be used by your friends to make their life easy.shame they didnt understand the rules before they camped. some will be more informed now . ignorance of rules doesnt make anyone innocent. my idea is they have to prove my guilt .i can prove my innocence.
 

Pollik

Active Member
#11
Thanks for this Donna, and Alan.

Unless I am sure of my ground, I park, not camp...although I would not have thought about the drop down bed over the steering wheel - definitely worth remembering.

€1200 is an expensive fine, perhaps not worth the risk for some people? Another thought, perhaps posting a copy instruccion 08_v-74 Normativa DGT caravanas on the windshield of your MH might avoid the trip to the police station, especially if one uses a highlighter on the passages that define your legal right to park.

And always, always...be respectful of where you park. Nevertheless, I find the opening post worrying. It would be a lot of money for me.
 

vwalan

Well-Known Member
#12
the spanish m,home clubs have a sticker. i cant scan and put up but it goes like this


AUTOCARAVANA ESTACIONADA
OCUPA LA MISMA SUPERFICIE QUE LO HARIA CIRCULANDO Y PERMANECE SOBRE LAS RUEDAS CON LAS QUE CIRCULA HABITUALMENTE. REAL DECRETO 1428/2003. REGLAMENTO GENERAL DE CIRCULACION.CAPITULO V111 ARTICULOS 90A94
INSTRUCCION 08/V-74 DE LA DGT
NO ACAMPADO.


CANT FIND MY TRANSLATION . SPANISH NOT THAT GOOD I,M SURE ONE OF YOU WILL DO IT. ITSRECCOMENDED YOU PIT THIS IN YOUR WINDOW WHEN PARKING . I NEVER WILD CAMP ONLY WILD PARK. couldnt turn the caps off done it now, hee hee i,m hopeless on these. should things be outside like chairs tables ,awnings . clothes lines etc you will be told to move. its strange as i have said ,the guardia etc prefer you parking in the town. on m,home fun recently there as been a thread about this .its hard for uk m,homers to get it in their heads that this street parking is the way in spain. its absolutly normal and under police advice ,park in the town by the hotels . or in the police station car park . goes against wild camping ideas . but it works. go to the beach in the day .take your camper .return to the streets at night. never park on the sea front as they dont like it .it gives confusion when the africans land illegally in the night. in quiet places it could be you are showing a light to guide the illegal shipping. it happens that and rubber boats full of hashish . etc . happens all the time . have fun but park dont camp.
 

vwalan

Well-Known Member
#13
polly .its about showing that you can just drive off. having curtains around the driving area is another way of attracting attention. far better to keep the front seats available and curtain off behind them. the bed thing was told to
me when i was at a meeting in spain. sounded correct to me . after all we are parking.
the wedge thing is something to be carefull of .you may have seen trucks etc with wedges in racks on the side . spanish campers never went over 3,500kg as their driving licence never allowed them to drive with that weight. but i do know of commercials getting pulled for it.
there is another document servei catala de transit
comunicat informatiu 3/2008
relatiu a la normativa d`autocaravanes. this one is by el director joseph perez moya.barcelona 16 abril de 2008
this is in catalan and have found it usefull as well . i once parked with a spanish policeman in aguilas he was really intersted in it .seems they hadnt been shown it .he took a copy to go to his boss . just to let them know it had gone eu wide ,possibly world wide with internet. they arent all bad . never had the last one translated but its his version of the first one.
 

DonnaG

Well-Known Member
#14
Here you go, the English translation of your wording above. Courtesy of Google Translate so don't blame me for the odd wording!!!

MOTORHOME PARKED
Occupying the same land that he would circulate and remain ON WHEELS THAT usual circles. Royal Decree 1428/2003. GENERAL RULES OF ARTICLES 90A94 V111 CIRCULACION.CAPITULO
INSTRUCTION OF THE DGT 08/V-74
Do not camp.
 

vwalan

Well-Known Member
#15
thanks .i might learn to do more on computers one day. maybe not .ha ha . thanks again.
what with google earth .cut n paste . put pics i here there .i really cant do these things . can bend metal make things .etc but cant do computers . do carry lots of paper like a travelling office.
 

vwalan

Well-Known Member
#17
paper works . computers dont seem to be the accepted media in these cases . dont worry i always try to back my actions with paper work. even set traps for authority to bite into.
also its nice to have copies to give the police . they can take it away and come back then give their inerpretation. most like the idea that some of us do stand up and be counted. they then tell us of places they use or places they advise not to use. to be honest france can be the same .have had many a night in a police stations yard . if it got late and couldnt find somewhere suitable.
somtimes think it would be nice to have a printer with me . but here i cant work the one i have . its connected to the desk top i dont use. it scans does all the bis but i cant use it . i,m hopeless or thick before you say it. ha ha . but have a few copies ready before i go away just in case.
 

BigMomma

Well-Known Member
#18
i,m hopeless or thick before you say it. ha ha .
We all have things that we are good at and other things that we are not so good at, doesn't make you thick or stupid just 'Normal' ;) I am not that good with technology, okay so can tap away on a computer, pretty good with spreadsheets etc. but abosultely crap at DIY, electrics, plumbing or anything mechanical :confused: I never waste time worrying about what I am not good at, just keep doing what I am good at and try and learn a little as I go through life but knowing and accepting my limitations :thumb:
 

TomThumb

Active Member
#19
Alan - how about we do a little swap of our skills?

I can come up and teach you whatever you need to know about computers and don't worry, I'll keep it extraordinarily simple and makes notes for you, printed out this end showing you exactly what to do click by simple click for a number of tasks and in exchange, perhaps you could give me some advice in person re: electrics on my van etc.

No need to feel inadequate about anything, believe you me when it comes to practical stuff like electrics, plumbing, carpentry, DIY etc, I'm as thick as 5 short planks of sawdust. I'm absolutely bloomin' hopeless at all that kind of stuff.

So, do we have a deal?

How about we meet up on Tuesday or Wednesday this week about lunchtime?

How does that suit you?

Kindest regards,


Mark
 

vwalan

Well-Known Member
#20
dont know .trago teusday if possible. waiting to have a tooth out in treliske . keep in touch.
have friends that were lecturer in st austell tec . on IT. mick here is another wizard but not me .
come up one day sure we /i can sort things i,m sure .
 

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