Full timers/long termers who abuse the system

Nighthawk

New Member
It is a shame that motorhomers and converted vans who are full timers have spoiled the wonderful places we used to stop. I came on this site. Bought a van and then with the help of Big Momma set off. The idiots who stayed for the winter and never moved have spoiled it for people like me. Those sites have been closed down in Spain and France. How selfish can you get. Stay a couple of nights and move on. I regret to say people on this site are guilty. I could name the guilty but I bet the organisation would close me down. I still travel and I thank Big Momma for his help and kindness. The people on this site who have abused the system are on another site. I have learned a lot from this site so thanks. Many on here are ...........
 

coolasluck

Well-Known Member
Well I agree with you with regards to overstaying your welcome. This year we have seen empty spots where once you could stay with no hassle. Not only do people stay for months on end in one place but also feel it acceptable to empty their cassettes in the bushes. I personally get bored after 2 or 3 days and like to move. I don't see how you can blame people on here though as these days it's only used rarely. Perhaps you mean another forum???? There's not too many people on here anymore I'm afraid
 

coolasluck

Well-Known Member
Name names and don't be a coward:D
 

BigMomma

Well-Known Member
Thank you Nighthawk for your kind words, there are lots of people who are willing to provide advice and guidance and I am just pleased to hear that you are still enjoying your travels. This is a Motorhome 'forum' where, like many other forums, discussions take place on all aspects of motorhoming and as long as exchanges of views are conducted in a calm and non-abusive manner then that is acceptable. People have differing views and that should be accepted, your observations or comments were not abusive so there would be no reason for this forums moderator to remove your post.

Let me just say that the issue with Motorhomers, fulltimers, long-termers and even those just taking holidays who stay long term in one location (other than Campsites or Aires that cater for such) is an issue that encompasses motorhomers of all nationalities, and not just those from the UK. These are the very same people who will complain about 'authorities' moving them on, or trying to force them on to Campsites or Aires that charge, they will not admit or accept that it is they that may be a part of the 'cause'. I do not condone this behaviour or offer any excuse for it, however, perhaps 'part' of the problem is financial. Motorhome fulltiming/long-terming is appealing to many because it can be a much more economical lifestyle and this is one of the major attractions to doing it for many. So some do not do choose the lifestyle for the actual 'travelling' but purely for the economics of it, if they were to move on every 2-3 days instead of parking up at the same location for 1-2 weeks, or in many cases, months, then that would entail more costs in fuel. These days, with the number of publications available, either in hard copy book format e.g. Aires Guides, or the vast number of available on-line 'Apps' e.g. Park4Night, Camper Contact etc. there really is no excuse for not being able to find somewhere to park up without having to travel for miles and miles. But of course, the other issue there is size of Motorhome, Campervan etc. as many 'Park Ups' can be in villages/towns with limited accessibility or in car parks that do not cater for the larger vehicles.

The greater majority of Motorhomers who enjoy Wildcamping (or free Camping as some prefer to refer to it) do tend to follow the restrictions advised in the guides or on the notices displayed at the location, however, some of our fellow motorhomers think that these parking limitations or restrictions e.g. 'No Camping' do not apply to them and it is they that are creating the demise of the opportunities to 'free camp' in a lot of locations.

Unfortunately, such inconsiderate attitudes apply within our Society in general and without wishing to take this off topic too much, the same applies to dog owners, not just the common issue of not picking up after their animal but ignoring other rules e.g. The other day we went out and we're at a beach, there were clear signs at the beach that said between set periods either dogs were not permitted on the beach or, on another beach nearby that did permit dogs, that they had to be on a lead. I counted at least a dozen dogs on a beach that they should have not been on and off their leads !! I am sure we could find lots of examples in everyday life of other behaviours where certain individuals flout rules.

The only thing that I can say is that we as individuals should do our own bit to enjoy our motorhing lifestyle within the formal and moral rules and standards and to not become despondent and take an attitude of 'if you cannot beat them join them'. Those that flout the rules or who have low morals and standards will, I suspect, never change. The majority will suffer the consequences because of the minority, but isn't that always the way ?
 

Nighthawk

New Member
Well I agree with you with regards to overstaying your welcome. This year we have seen empty spots where once you could stay with no hassle. Not only do people stay for months on end in one place but also feel it acceptable to empty their cassettes in the bushes. I personally get bored after 2 or 3 days and like to move. I don't see how you can blame people on here though as these days it's only used rarely. Perhaps you mean another forum???? There's not too many people on here anymore I'm afraid
Unfortunately it was a member of this forum. I spent a couple of days with him then I too moved on. It was a couple of winters ago. Both places he spent over a month at each. They are now closed to motorhomers. Many towns have closed their doors to us because of the same reason. Of course we all have our own spots. At one time I would share the info. Not anymore. The guy has a self build. My wife has advised me not to name, but he posts quite a lot and is an expert on all motorhome matters.
 

BigMomma

Well-Known Member
Name names and don't be a coward:D
I don't agree with the 'Name Names' I'm afraid, although that is just a personal perspective. I believe that those who are on this forum who conduct the behaviours being referred to will know who they are, a case of 'If the cap fits, wear it'. However, these issues are not confined to just one or two individuals, or to individuals just on this forum, it is a far wider issue across all nationalities within the motorhoming community, so naming particular individuals will not serve any constructive purpose and let's be realistic, those that do these things will probably just put two fingers up at posts such as these anyway. If I was wearing my rose-tinted glasses I may hope that Motorhomers who have been over-staying or 'Camping' in areas they shouldn't may realise that their actions are creating widespread problems for the whole motorhoming community and will decide to change their ways, I am not wearing them so my expectations of changes in behaviour are low.
 

coolasluck

Well-Known Member
Eric there was not a smiley which showed a tongue in cheek.

In seriousness though in my experience I haven't yet met any Brit who has been taking the pxxxs in how they behave or what they do on the road. The ones I find the most irritating are normally the French. Some people think that they can reserve their spots by leaving locked bikes rugs and pot plants stopping others from using a parking spot. Some also like to tow around cars using their trailers and park their trailers e.t.c so as to prevent others from using another 1 or 2 parking spots. Why can't they bugger off to a campsite.? It's utterly selfish. Also how much space do some of these clowns need? It leaves you scratching your head when your come across the typical pensioners in their Sunday slacks all trying to outdo each other with the most expensive and oversized vehicle they can afford.Incondiderate parking again mostly the French and Germans parking lengthways preventing the locals from parking up and enjoying views of the sea ,when they could have parked at the back of the car parking area.A dutch woman using a font to rinse out her toilet causing a public complaint where all were moved.Yes I agree our lifestyle is being ruined by the selfish.How much space do people really need.? If you want to tow cars around with an r.v then bugger off to a campsite. Brainless stupid and old and it's a shame that some don'kt just stay at home and leave this lifestyle for the more sensible and considerate of us. So many examples but unfortunately not exhaustive of things we have seen on the road......but I will still add that in my experience it's not the Brits that are the nuisance but instead its our European neighbours.

As an aside this year appears to be a lot quieter than the last few years let's just hope that brexit doesn't ruin it for us all.
 

BigMomma

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, there is not any Nationality of Motorhomers that are not guilty, but I agree that some Nationalities are more prolific than others ;)

At the risk of being contentious, their are times and opportunities where I personally believe that it is perfectly feasible to park up for a day or two in a really discreet and secluded location whereby you can put tables and chairs out and even have a barbecue. It is about being sensible and using common sense, if you are in a public car park, or in or near a populated location, including a beach, or in a location that permits or tolerates Motorhome parking, then you should not do anything that can be interpreted as 'Camping', even if their is no official signage. We all know what is, and what is not acceptable. But there are some really wonderful locations that are miles away from habitations or main roads and off the beaten track, not widely known and usually a place that you just find by chance, so as long as you leave no trace of being there when you depart, no litter, no emptying of waste tanks etc. etc. I feel sure that I am preaching to the converted here :thumb:

When we owned 'Big Momma' we knew that we would have some restrictions on where we could park due to the length of the vehicle, it never stopped us from getting to places that we wanted to go it was just, at times, a little more inconvenient, especially if we had to park a lot further away in order to find a suitable place to park up, then get into a location via other means, bicycles, walking or public transport but this was one of the reasons for downsizing to a 6 metre vehicle.

I am still not convinced that 'Brexit' will happen, but we have prepared for the 'worst case scenario' in our travelling logistics. To be honest, we no longer care about Brexit, one way or the other, we just want the indecisiveness to come to an end so that we can make informed decisions, what, if any, restrictions there will be and what additional administration and procedures we need to implement prior to our trips. :thumb:
 

Nighthawk

New Member
Eric there was not a smiley which showed a tongue in cheek.

In seriousness though in my experience I haven't yet met any Brit who has been taking the pxxxs in how they behave or what they do on the road. The ones I find the most irritating are normally the French. Some people think that they can reserve their spots by leaving locked bikes rugs and pot plants stopping others from using a parking spot. Some also like to tow around cars using their trailers and park their trailers e.t.c so as to prevent others from using another 1 or 2 parking spots. Why can't they bugger off to a campsite.? It's utterly selfish. Also how much space do some of these clowns need? It leaves you scratching your head when your come across the typical pensioners in their Sunday slacks all trying to outdo each other with the most expensive and oversized vehicle they can afford.Incondiderate parking again mostly the French and Germans parking lengthways preventing the locals from parking up and enjoying views of the sea ,when they could have parked at the back of the car parking area.A dutch woman using a font to rinse out her toilet causing a public complaint where all were moved.Yes I agree our lifestyle is being ruined by the selfish.How much space do people really need.? If you want to tow cars around with an r.v then bugger off to a campsite. Brainless stupid and old and it's a shame that some don'kt just stay at home and leave this lifestyle for the more sensible and considerate of us. So many examples but unfortunately not exhaustive of things we have seen on the road......but I will still add that in my experience it's not the Brits that are the nuisance but instead its our European neighbours.

As an aside this year appears to be a lot quieter than the last few years let's just hope that brexit doesn't ruin it for us all.
From private correspondence, with long term and well respected members of this forum, who have met, in person, a number of other members of this forum, I can say without hesitation that at least half a dozen members of this forum have been guilty of long term parking and inappropriate waste disposal. Most of us travelled far and wide before Brexit. Why should it alter anything. Oh and by the way I cannot vote.
 

sundowners

Well-Known Member
We used to travel around in a self build many years ago and spent a lot of time in Portugal, back then we were usually the only van parked in beach type spots in the Algarve, just one van even stopping for a few weeks didn't create much of an impact, we were friendly with locals and shopped in local shops to put a little back into the immediate community--------- wind the clock on 30 odd years and things are totally different------ there are now dozens of vans where we would have been alone----- just in the Algarve there are now thousands of vans expecting to stop for nothing and many dumping in inappropriate places, expecting to be supplied with water for free and putting the minimum back into the local community------ we like our own space and don't like hanging around in mobs_-------- so to enable us to continue to enjoy Portugal and the hospitality of its lovely people we have bought our own little piece of paradise. Although we can stay there very cheaply we certainly don't abuse the hospitality of the locals and are still happy to contribute to the area that welcomes us to stay------ so much so that we are selling our van and calling Portugal home!!!! We do intend to buy a small van to continue exploring Portugal but have no great desire --- at the moment---- to go further afield------- we will of course travel with a great deal of respect for the people that are so hospitable to us!!!!!! And distance ourselves from the often inconsiderate motorhomers!!!! We shall continue to wild/free camp where appropriate because we love that lifestyle!!!! (For as long as we are able!!)
 

Dunroamin

Well-Known Member
We used to travel around in a self build many years ago and spent a lot of time in Portugal, back then we were usually the only van parked in beach type spots in the Algarve, just one van even stopping for a few weeks didn't create much of an impact, we were friendly with locals and shopped in local shops to put a little back into the immediate community--------- wind the clock on 30 odd years and things are totally different------ there are now dozens of vans where we would have been alone----- just in the Algarve there are now thousands of vans expecting to stop for nothing and many dumping in inappropriate places, expecting to be supplied with water for free and putting the minimum back into the local community------ we like our own space and don't like hanging around in mobs_-------- so to enable us to continue to enjoy Portugal and the hospitality of its lovely people we have bought our own little piece of paradise. Although we can stay there very cheaply we certainly don't abuse the hospitality of the locals and are still happy to contribute to the area that welcomes us to stay------ so much so that we are selling our van and calling Portugal home!!!! We do intend to buy a small van to continue exploring Portugal but have no great desire --- at the moment---- to go further afield------- we will of course travel with a great deal of respect for the people that are so hospitable to us!!!!!! And distance ourselves from the often inconsiderate motorhomers!!!! We shall continue to wild/free camp where appropriate because we love that lifestyle!!!! (For as long as we are able!!)
For the same reasons we had to decide to forgo travel in the Iberian Peninsula,we have just spent 3 months in Turkey and in our 5th month here in Greece.The max number of mohos we have seen in any one place was 10,liberally distributed and only once.The norm being us alone. We have spent our time here wilding,Greece has more coastline than all other countries in Europe put together.A half hour of Greek language course a day for 5 months has made a huge difference to the quality of life.
 

sundowners

Well-Known Member
We spent a winter on Crete----- and loved it and the people----- it is so much better when you have a bit of their language!!!!!--------- but that was many years ago----well before they joined europe--------I always wondered if it is as nice now, looks like it is!!!!!!
The first thing we learnt was " are you German?" (In Greek) and when we replied in Greek no we are English we were welcomed with open arms!!!!!!!-------- I wonder if it is the same on Crete now????? Maybe they have forgotten the war now!!!!!?-------- it used to be like that in Norway in the 60s but it has moved on since then------- although we were told the Norwegian people boycotted Aldi/Lidl????? No idea if that is true???
 

BigMomma

Well-Known Member
I think it is the same in most Countries, if you try to at least to learn even the basics of the language, even if not perfect, they appreciate it :thumb: Having recently read a lot of reviews on the Park4Night App it is interesting to note that it is not just British Motorhomers having a moan about other Motorhomers who abuse the parkings and services, leaving rubbish in plastic bags when they depart and not placing them in refuse bins, where provided, or taking away with them and finding an appropriate disposal facility as well as not cleaning down Chemical Waste Points after using them and also lots of comments on units overstaying and 'Camping'. Is their a solution to this............ ? The authorities seem to have found one, close down Aires and stop Motorhomes from using 'free camping' locations. It isn't a case of Countries not being Motorhome friendly, more a case of a minority of Motorhomers making us no longer welcome as we will 'all' be tarred with the same brush. Which gives rise to another question, are 'Apps' like Park4Night and Kamper Contact and the many others a blessing or a curse ?
 

Dunroamin

Well-Known Member
Big Momma as ever the voice of reason,every forum needs one. There are people who "live in their vans" literally park ,dish up loungers out and thats it.Telly,internet ,sunshine and Aldi.We live where we are and have done for the last 20 years. As regards to Mohos in Spain,in particular the "Costas" Most Northern Europeans are very seasonal,shortlly after Xmas till round Easter. Aguilas at the palms just over the border in Andalucia.In the winter months when it is full of North European mohos the rubbish bins will only be emptied erratically and no portaloos.In the summer months when the Spanish come,park up the caravan,put up the awning then leave it and come at the weekend.The bins will be emptied every day, two portaloos also emptied every day although a lot of them seem to prefer to pee and poo in the bushes rather than use a communal loo.Bear in mind in summer the lifespan of a poo in the bushes is approx three days before it turns to dust,not so the paper.The pee and poo in the bushes is common behind beaches where there are no facilties so let he without sin cast the first stone Motorhome slums like "Cullera" and earlier "Almerimar" where the mohos filled the town center bumper to bumper using up all the parking to the exclusion of the locals.We actively look for places where parking up for a longer period is not a problem.If you choose or think that you are obliged to move on every 2 or 3 days thats down to you but as far as I am concerned how I conduct myself is a matter for me alone. We dont consider ourselves to be part of the moho scene,having very little in common with the vast majority of them.We are fulltimers in every sense of the word .
 

BigMomma

Well-Known Member
I certainly agree with your sentiments that it is extremely likely that it is the Seasonal Motorhome traveller's that are responsible for the majority of all the bad press, rather than those that are actually 'true' fulltimers.

The overstaying issue is generally in relation to 'Aires' that specify a time restriction (48 or 72 hours) but get ignored, and is not necessarily the remote or secluded locations that are used for wildcamping that are being referred to.

That said, there are also some fulltimers who do set up a long term 'base camp', not in remote or secluded locations but on the edges of villages/towns or on public beaches and who remain there for months at a time, but again, as in all walks of life, these are generally a minority that, through their actions or behaviours, spoil it for the majority.

From my own personal perspective, once I get back on the road I will use Aires when I need/want to, but only to perhaps visit a particular town for sightseeing or using launderettes for items that cannot be easily hand-washed. We can stock up with provisions whilst travelling, plenty of places where you can pull over, do some shopping, have a coffee then move on and find a place away from the masses to enjoy a bit of solitude and do the sort of things we want to do. We are not anti-social and it is nice to socialise occasionally with our fellow traveller's and there will be occasions I am sure when there will be other's doing similar activities in a popular location e.g. Kayaking on Barragems or using a convenient park up near hiking trails, but do I want/need to be parked up with neighbours on a regular basis, the honest answer is no.

So, I am not having a moan at any particular group of Motorhomers, just concurring with a widespread popular observation that there are a minority of inconsiderate Motorhomers who are spoiling it for the more considerate and mindful majority, and I feel sure that there are fulltimers, long-termers and short seasonal Motorhome traveller's who have witnessed examples of such behaviours as it does appear to be getting more prevalent. Probably partially attributable to the popularity of Motorhomes(Self builds etc) is increasing Year on Year.

It is good to hear that you are still out there and enjoying your lifestyle :thumb:
 

Dunroamin

Well-Known Member
I didnt realise after 20 years on the road that there was a "System".Why has no-one posted a copy so that we can all see the rules ? Talking to a Swiss couple here in Greece they told us that they had been moved on by the police twice.Once while parked up on a convent parking where they stopped for lunch.Changed into bikini and trunks to eat outside!!! The police said their conduct was inexcusable and told them to pack and go.The second time was for the same behaviour.Seeing in Spain and Portugal,both strong Catholic countries the same behaviour on public parking by moho owners.Makes me wonder would they park up in their home town,get the loungers out,put on bikini and trunks?.I doubt it.So why do they feel that they can park up opposite Aldi in Calpe.bumper to bumper,block the pavement with their loungers and lie practically naked in the sun?
A beach is a place
Where all shapes
And sizes
Lack girdles and padding
To make their disguises.
Sign in Cornwall
Dress for who/what you are
Not for who/what you want to be.
Someone please post a link to the "System"
 

BigMomma

Well-Known Member
I do not think that the OP used the right terminology, rather than the word 'System' I think they may have meant 'Code', which I think most can relate to, similar in principle to the 'Countryside Code'

Just yesterday we read in the Spanish Newspaper 'SUR' about complaints from locals in regard to a group of Motorhomes that had parked bumper to bumper in a car park outside a cultural centre, completely blocking access to it. The article showed a photograph of the group and how they were parked. The examples provided by you in your above post and this recent newspaper article are, I am sure, just two more examples of why Motorhomers are losing places to park and are no longer becoming welcome in local communities.
 

coolasluck

Well-Known Member
We are parked up in Asturias in a parking spot that when we first came here 3 years ago was full of anti motorhome signs. A lot depends on the local mayor's attitude to motorhomes.Like a few other places the signs have come down and you can now park where in other places the signs go up.Of course if locals complain then it has to be acted on by the police. Normally though it's always the odd ones that ruin it for us all.
 

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